No Transition Without Transmission
0:00 Welcome back to another episode of Energy 101. I feel like we're just on a roll with all these recordings and releases. So we're excited to be back today. We have Riley from Arbo. She is a data
0:13 scientist. And today it's a little bit of a different topic because you're a data scientist. Tell us what Arbo does to kick us off. Okay. So Arbo at a higher level, a lot of what we do is focused
0:27 in the energy regulatory space. So looking at a lot of the data that comes from that. So that's things like timing to get like permits and key milestones and approvals and also a lot of the cost
0:38 mechanisms. So we look at all of that and then transform that into some sort of like actionable commercial intelligence.
0:47 And yes, a big focus. But today we're actually going to talk about electric transmission. Yes. Yes. Yes. And renewables So our business initially started on the natural gas side
1:00 kind of that first big pipeline build out following the cold to gas transition. But as a lot of that is slowing down and renewables and transmission are really picking up, we still have that part of
1:11 our core business because it is really necessary and going to continue to be needed in the country, but kind of moving and expanding into the renewable and transmission space as well. Great. Cool.
1:24 So it seems like your role at Arvo is like your
1:27 data focus and it shifted over time. So what does that look like with power generation and transmission? Yeah, so I think from a high level, what I do is still the same. It's just the actual
1:41 subject matter that I'm looking at. So when I first started at Arvo, I was again, more on the natural gas side, looking at timing of projects, cost of projects. And a lot of what I do as a data
1:51 scientist is looking at that data. And then a lot of what I do is actually in Python, programming language.
1:60 And I pull in huge amounts of data at any given time, huge varying on the subject matter, 'cause there are only so many pipelines in the country, for example. And then looking at that data, kind
2:09 of cleaning it up, and then analyzing it and pulling out, you know, actionable intelligence. And then a lot of what I do is I turn that into visualizations to really easily and quickly communicate
2:19 that. So graphs and maps is a lot of what I do. Graphs and maps, graphs and maps But then now, as we're kind of moving into this new space, I'm doing more of kind of what I like to think of as
2:33 the back-end work. So a lot more research into not only the processes that go along with these projects and like their development, but also what data is out there.
2:45 Like looking at the data, how reliable it is, kind of the source, like what that data is able to tell us, but also what it's not able to tell us. Gotcha Yeah, that's really interesting. I think
2:58 what you do is really cool is it really cool? and I wish that I could do it. I think I, while back, wanted to become a data scientist. No way. Really? Yeah, I actually looked into like classes
3:08 and things, but then I was like getting into it and I'm like, We're actually launching a new data focused podcast this week. I know what it's gonna be. Today. Today. Well, by the time this
3:19 comes out, it won't be too hot. Oh. As we're recording in today, today, July 19th.
3:26 Code's called energy bites. Okay. That's all Yeah, we have our in-house data nerd, John. Our little engineer. Yes, he's our little data engineer. Yeah, no, I think, I mean, data's so cool
3:37 because there's so much of it, and as we go on, there's only ever going to be more of it, but I think one of the big challenges is what to do with it, but also kind of understanding what the
3:50 data's telling us 'cause I think a lot of times that's
3:54 where there's a little bit that's lost, I think for a lot of people is they're like, Oh, like, I can see that the data says this, but - what does it mean? And that's a lot of what we do is kind
4:03 of taken at like, okay, this is the data, but this is what it means. This is what it implies. And this is how things are gonna look in the future because of this. Translating and claiming. Yes,
4:12 yeah, we definitely need that. Yup. So can you set the stage for like, what does a power grid look like today? Okay, yes. And it's different since we're in Texas, right? Like we have our own
4:24 grid? We have our own grid. Texas is kind of doing its own thing So
4:29 the United States power grid is really split into three separate grids. So when we talk about the grid, a lot of times we're really specifically talking about the transmission lines. So those are
4:40 the power lines that are taking electricity from wherever it's generated to where it's needed. So at a very high level, there's three grids in the United States. The first is in Texas, since we're
4:52 here The second is really everything that's west of the Rocky Mountains. And then the third is everything that is east of the rock. mountains. So a lot of times, power is generated, not
5:05 necessarily where it's needed, especially as we're shifting to a lot of renewable solar and wind power generation, because you can't put acres of solar farms and acres of wind farms right up against
5:16 the cities. So that power has to be taken, you know, to where everything is needed typically in those urban city areas Yeah.
5:25 Great. I feel like we talk a lot here about how one of our missions is to raise just general energy IQ for the world. And we always joke that I think the common person has no idea where their
5:37 electricity actually comes from. They plug something in, it has power, and that's it. So let's school them today, where our electricity comes from. Yeah. So
5:49 it comes from a lot of sources, I would say, but in general, once that electricity is generated, it's all the same. So in the US, most of our power was generated with coal, firing coal, and
6:03 then taking that steam, and then it turns a little turbine, and then that energy is pulled in, and that's where the electricity, the electrons come from. Again, with, as we really had the shale
6:15 revolution, and then kind of boomed with the pipeline build out, a lot of that coal has been replaced with natural gas generation. And now, as we're moving into the space of renewables, a lot of
6:27 that is now being generated with solar and wind power. But regardless of how it's generated, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day because it's all an electron. And then those electrons
6:37 are fed into, from the power plants, they are typically fed into some sort of transformer, which steps up the voltage, and then they're fed into typically a higher voltage transmission line just
6:48 because you can transport more of it at a given time at a higher voltage. And then, so, a lot of times that'll be taken further away, especially with the. renewables, fossil fuel plants can
6:60 usually be a little bit closer to the cities. Yeah. Regardless, it needs to be brought to where it's needed. And those are usually on the higher voltage transmission lines. Once it gets close to
7:09 those areas, it's typically goes through another substation, another transformer and step down to a slightly lower voltage. And then it kind of feeds out like, in this case, like let's say across
7:18 the city. And then once it gets to a neighborhood, a residential commercial area, it's typically step down one more time, and then fed into a power line that's attached to your house. So it stays
7:29 to power your house. Hey, first, first, some question. Yeah, does it lose? Okay, I don't even know if this question makes sense. And I always preface my dumb questions like that. Because I
7:39 don't know, I have to. Does it lose power or maybe voltage as it's being moved, like transferred from, you know, the that's a good question that I'm not sure I have an answer to not because I
7:52 think it's a dumb question. But because I Like, in terms of the technical stuff. Yeah, we're just really, because I personally don't look into a lot of the technology on much more of a higher
8:03 level view. I guess, no. Maybe? We're gonna find out. I feel like after we're recording, we'll Google and we'll put in a little blur. Yes, it does, or no, it doesn't. Or someone just come
8:14 on and just that exact thing. I mean, honestly, it's just something I've never really thought about. I know that typically, solar and wind plants, they have a capacity value And this is also
8:27 true of natural gas, but it's typically much lower. First solar and wind, just because they're really dependent on the weather that they've given day. So just because it is capable of generating,
8:37 let's say 10 megawatts of electricity, from day to day, depending on the weather, like even two days in a row, like that solar plant, some might shine all day. So it can have really close to
8:46 that capacity. And then the next day, it'll be cloudy. So it won't generate any of that energy. It's supposed to or capable of. Right. That kind of goes into our next question.
8:58 I think anyone that lived here a couple of years ago during the freeze, Ken knows what we're talking about. The problem is facing the grid, especially the Texas grid. I think that's like, I would
9:09 assume unless you work in energy when the freeze happened, I feel like that's when the common person kind of realized, oh, like there are some issues with our grid and the fact that we are kind of
9:19 a silo grid and not prepared for temperatures that we should not be I mean, Texas saw it because everything happened in Texas, but I think that that really could happen in most of the country. And
9:33 I think because for a lot of people, like electricity is such a given, because I mean,
9:40 you just turn your lights on, you plug your phone, it works every single day, like unless there's like,
9:46 where I live, there's a lot of trees, so every once in a while will have a tree fall into the car line, but then it's fixed in an hour. And it's no big deal. you know, it might be dark, but
9:55 it's not like we're freezing. Exactly, thank God. But yeah, so kind of related to the grid, there's problems that generation is facing and there's problems that transmission is facing. At a high
10:08 level, they're the same. There's reliability issues and timeline issues, kind of getting those new projects built. On the
10:17 generation side, a lot of that reliability is kind of related to what I was saying, looking at the fact that they're completely dependent on the weather. They can only generate as much power as the
10:30 weather allows them to, and that's really out of our control where it's with traditional sources, natural gas coal. You know that if you burn a certain amount of it, you're gonna get the same
10:41 amount of energy every single time, like there's no questions about that. So that's a big issue with kind of some of the more renewable generations that it also needs, these power plants typically
10:51 a lot smaller, and they have much lower capacities than. the
10:56 traditional sources. So again, we just need a lot more of them, which kind of comes into the timeline part of it with these new facilities that are being built. In most regions of the country,
11:08 there is either an ISO or an RTO, which governs kind of the transmission in that area. And what does that stand for? So an ISO is an independent system operator and an RTO is a regional
11:20 transmission operator. At a high level, they're the same Like their responsibilities and stuff. It's just the region. So typically the way that a lot of people look at it is that an ISO governs a
11:32 single state, whereas an RTO is a region. Okay. But there are several
11:37 RTOs that have ISO in the name that are over a whole region. So, and why ISO is one, they just do New York, but then ISO New E and E is ISO New England. So they're a whole region. But they
11:50 really do the same thing So these organizations look at. the new like the proposed generation facilities and in order to be connected to the grid they have to undergo an interconnection study. So
12:04 when these projects are being proposed they enter what is called an interconnection queue and they have to undergo a series of studies which really just make sure that the place that they want to be
12:13 located is valid in terms of being able to interconnect to the grid. So once that generation is there is it able to get connected to the grid and then power because in some places there are capacity
12:22 constraints where there's too much generation there being fed in at a given point. So that's a big issue that those are facing. The problem with the interconnection cues is that they're very long
12:36 and especially as we're moving to this renewable generation historically it wasn't a problem because the traditional sources of energy the power plants were much bigger so there were a lot fewer of
12:48 them going in at any given time. They just didn't need as many whereas now it's their record numbers. being put into these cues, like in some places, I think it's like 10 times as many as we're
13:01 going in 10 years ago. And because this process is so long, a lot of these projects are what we refer to as speculative. So they just kind of stick them in, see what's gonna happen. And then it's
13:12 something like 80 in some regions of the country end up withdrawing before they even, you know, complete the first study. So that's a huge burden on like the cues themselves, but also the people
13:24 that are working to kind of try to get through these. So it is just a compounding problem. So it's not like you can just find a patch of land and - No, no, throw a patch of land. I'm a tran. But
13:35 where's the electricity? Right, go. You know, and that's a huge piece of it.
13:40 So then kind of moving to transmission, the reliability for transmission is a little bit different. One of the things that we find with the grid the United States is old right now. And it hasn't
13:54 then it's okay to this point, but now we're getting to the point where a lot of those existing lines need to be upgraded and replaced because they are so old. And that is one of the issues that kind
14:07 of brings the reliability of transmission lines. And this is what we saw. Right, what happens when they're old? They just stop working? Yes, a lot of times, yeah. But also they can cause
14:20 safety hazards. There have been a couple of wildfires, specifically out in California, that have been linked to the aging transmission lines there. But really it just, they no longer become
14:31 reliable. They can stop, they can't hold the same capacity. It's a big issue. And then again, similar to the generation, the transmission timelines are very, very lengthy for these long
14:42 distance transmission lines specifically that we're looking at. A lot of that is because there's no kind of one size fits all. Permitting. regulatory body that kind of can look at these projects
14:55 and be like, okay, we can go through all of this. It's not a well-established process.
15:01 So with that, there was just a transmission project that is meant to go from think Wyoming into Las Vegas. It is 730 miles, the Trans West Express transmission line. This specific line was kind of
15:18 picked as a priority project under the Obama administration in 2011, and it just started construction in June of this year. What? So they were doing the studies for the whole - Yeah, and also like
15:33 the acquisition of land and the permitting all of this, and it took, and this is just one example, like we're seeing this across the country. So it's a huge thing. So now, like thinking about
15:43 that timeline, there are a lot of net zero power sector goals. I think 2035 is the year. Right, well I was just about to say, An issue like that doesn't really matter if the power is coming from
15:54 a traditional source who are renewable. No. Because there's an underlying issue with the transmission. Yes. And so how are we supposed to meet all these goals and all these people that are going
16:05 to go by 2030 and all this stuff, we're gonna do all these things when we can't even take care of the lines we already have. Exactly. And I think that's the biggest issue. We really have kind of
16:17 taken a stance that there is no transition without transmission Ooh. And a lot, I like that too. I think that's a high-level episode. Yeah. But so a lot and a lot of the focus has been in the
16:29 renewable generation and replacing the old fossil fuel generation because, you know, that's where the emissions come from. For sure. It's not from the transmission, but you don't have the
16:37 transmission to support it. You're still gonna have the same issues. And then as, you know, we move to electrification, especially electric cars. And then I know there's a lot of like new
16:45 building codes and stuff that are saying like you're home heating and all of that has to be electric instead of Natural gas. Natural gas. So there's going to be an even higher demand for electricity
16:54 that we're not going to be able to kind of keep up, right? Yeah, both because the generation, we're not seeing in a lot of areas of the country, the traditional generation is retiring faster than
17:05 the renewable generation is coming on. Also, there's the whole capacity issue. So needed it's where to transported be to able be to going not it's then but,
17:15 if we get to the point, I know the freezer was different because the grid froze over something, but could we potentially get to a point, especially here in Texas, where especially in the heat,
17:25 for in this world where, let's just say, even 30 of people have electric cars, 75 of homes are electric as opposed to gas. Can the grid just over-stimulate over work? And it just like shuts off.
17:42 So you know what I mean? Well, it just breaks a lot of times when kind of the regular, the regular. Regulators step in. I know in California a couple years ago when they were having the extreme
17:56 heat and there was a drought So they weren't able a lot of their stuff is hydropower and they had the rolling blackouts Right. I think yeah that it would probably go to that before like the grid
18:06 would just explode give out But I mean, that's why I'm wondering yeah, you know, you can like suck it And your house and if you're using too many like if I could be done like that's what trips were
18:17 And everyone's plugged in every bath and all of a sudden all the power goes out all the blueberries going in once Yeah,
18:24 yeah, I can take a lot for the grid itself to like be overloaded But there could absolutely be cases where they would step in and be like all right We're gonna turn the power off to your house from
18:32 this time because there is too much demand and we don't have and I'm not going to meet it Yeah, I'm actually really scary. Yeah about and I feel like no one really talks about That side of it
18:45 everyone is really focused on the scary part of the environment if we keep using so many fossil fuels, but not. What's the scary part about going back into the 1920s? Yeah, yeah. When you have no
18:58 electricity, I don't want to live that life. I just don't know. But I don't think people know because that's not what people are talking about. That's not what people are talking about. Right,
19:05 absolutely. Oh, we need to go all renewable. Okay, that's great, but like, we need reliable power generation. We need to keep the lights on. Yeah, well, right. It's all fine and dandy then
19:17 We could potentially have all this wind and solar renewable power, but if we can't get it to the people who need it, then what's the point? Yeah, and that's where there's just been so much
19:25 investment in the generation and so much focus in the generation and so little on the transmission side. And that's really gonna be what's key. I've honestly never heard that transmission is a
19:34 problem. No, at all. But it makes sense that a lot of what we have is old and just needs updating, like I said, just like you would update any part of your house. or get a new AC or get a new
19:47 water heater, whatever, yeah. Yeah, so what is the solution? Do we need to have transmissions in rural areas like more? And how do you combat the nimbyism? And for those who don't know what
20:03 nimby's are, it's not in my backyard. So like they don't want all the infrastructure as an eyesore. Yeah, so absolutely There was a study that came out of Princeton maybe a couple years ago at
20:17 this point, which basically said we need to expand to the grid by five times 2050 by
20:24 , I believe, in order to kind of meet like this need for electricity as it's going to continue to grow as we push towards electrification. And especially with the move to renewable because it's
20:38 gonna be coming in in so much more places. But it's also gonna have to expand out into these rural areas, because that's where so much of the renewable generation is. And it has to be located there.
20:49 It's not like there's any other option. There's a sense of, yeah. So once you, like we were saying, or I think the easy part of my mind would be finding land identifying it. But you were
21:00 mentioning there's a lot of issues, permitting and it can take obviously 10, 12 years to even get something started. So is there any, do people realize that? Is there any reform being talked
21:13 about around the permitting? Like how do we, because that seems to be an issue that also needs some reform before we can really get to where we need to be. There have been a couple of the big
21:24 pieces of legislation have kind of identified funding and kind of put forth funding and tax credits for some of these things. But it's not really actually doing anything in terms of fixing the
21:38 problem The Department of Energy has just recently undertaken a, what they're calling the Building a Better Grid Initiative, where they're really trying to look to identify some of these areas where,
21:51 you know, transmission is needed the most, either because a lot of times it's because the existing is old and it's congested. There's a lot, you know, going in and coming out. But right now
22:03 they're not really doing anything, which I recognize that this, it's not an easy thing. It's not an, and it's going to be expensive and it's going to take a lot of time So there's been the start,
22:17 I guess, but like nothing has been done yet. And it's not, not to say that that's a bad thing. It just means that we're probably not going to meet some of our, you know, emissions goals related
22:27 to the power sector. When you would hope that that would be just kind of a built in thing, all these like, we'll get there eventually Putting forward for renewable energy sources, you would think
22:39 kind of like a layer to that should also be a. and we also need to fix our transmission. Yeah, so there have definitely been something started and it's going to be hard with no federal oversight.
22:54 I know that's a big thing, you know, people want federal oversight, people don't want federal oversight, but that's what we see on the natural gas pipeline side is because any project that's
23:03 crossing state lines has to go through a review process with the Federal Energy Regulatory Committee, FERC for short And they, because of that, the process is short in comparison. It's still like
23:17 four to five years in some cases, but with that federal oversight, and it also kind of allows federal eminent domain over the land to build some of these projects, which, whether that's a good
23:31 thing or not,
23:33 that's its own argument, but if that would help, and also just with the federal permitting, looking at it that way,
23:42 kind of streamline the process because right now, if a transmission line is crossing state lines, it has to go through the process in each state individually. Some states,
23:52 how do we not figure that out yet? Some states are similar, like some regions of the country who are under these ISOs and RTOs, they have similar processes in order to help because it's just like a
24:02 huge regional effort to do it. But in a lot of cases, these are being developed by private developers. So those developers have to go into each state, complete each process individually Typically,
24:12 there's an environmental review that goes with it. And a lot of times it's going to be, each state is going to do their own. Whereas now, like with these pipeline projects, there's just one
24:21 federal environmental process. There are still state permits that need to be acquired for different projects, but it's just a much more streamlined process. Do you feel like a part of the problem
24:31 too is politicians not being educated on energy? Yes.
24:38 It's full stop. Yeah.
24:42 A lot of the problem is just how political energy has become. I mean, I'm relatively new in the industry. I joined, you know, 2019 kind of as I was ending college. So I haven't, you know, been
24:55 around to see all of it. But from when I've heard like it hasn't always been this way, but because it's like, oh, energy, and then it becomes climate change. And then it becomes this huge
25:03 political issue, which at the end of the day, like it shouldn't be that way. Because we all, we all need it. Like it doesn't, like it does not matter Like if you are a person, you need the
25:15 energy. Yeah, like energy, right. Yeah, anything because it is so politicized. And that's actually a lot of our customers have relationships with different legislators in different areas and
25:27 come to us for the data to kind of use to educate them. And then they can go use that either that our customers are a lot of the midstream natural gas companies. They're either working directly
25:41 legislators or they're going into lobbying, use that to educate them so that they know more because it is, that is kind of how a lot of policy happens in this country. And I know it's not that way
25:51 in other countries where the people who are making the laws are not necessarily educated in the space that they're making the laws in. So we see it as in energy specifically very sad in Europe, they
26:03 actually have like experts who kind of like write these ideas for the policies and kind of like, okay, this is why we should do this because of all these statistics, because of all of this, but
26:12 that's not how it works in this country. So that's I know Senator Manchin is one of the big ones who's really been pushing for a lot of these things related to energy and getting them included in the
26:21 legislation. But I know that he's done a lot of learning about him because we prepared stuff for him. Yeah. So if you're a politician, this is your formal invitation to listen to energy 101. Yes.
26:36 And do your research. Yeah, that's even a lot of the content that we produce at Arbo is very research-based, it's database, and then a lot of it we're producing and publishing for free, mostly
26:48 through LinkedIn, but we're putting it out there, so a lot of our customers are in it, but anybody can, and I think that it's a huge resource. It's very valuable. I'm gonna start looking at
26:58 y'all's. I know. I know, I'm digging in. Yeah, very interesting. Should we go to the questions? Yeah. Yeah. All right, so we do three rapidifier questions. Missy, do you wanna ask the
27:11 questions? Sure. Okay, what is the biggest misconception of the energy industry? Oh, that's a good question. The biggest misconception.
27:24 Yeah, I think I would probably
27:29 lean to the idea that natural gas is like the absolute biggest enemy for the energy, well, I guess for the common people, the energy industry, you know, they know, they like it. But I think as
27:43 we've seen this shift from cold and natural gas specifically in the power sector, there's been a huge, huge drop in emissions since it's really come. And is it perfect? Is it the best option? No.
27:54 Obviously not. You know, in a perfect world, we'd all just, you know, have our solar panels and everything would be clean and it would be perfect. And it's sunny and sunny. Yes. Very fine.
28:02 Yeah. But kind of until then, like it's going to be, like natural gas is going to be a really great kind of middle, like filler in between. And I think that it's reliable, you know, we know
28:15 that if it's always going to be able to meet our generation needs,
28:20 at least as we, you know, continue to transition because a quick process, it's gonna take a really long time. And it's not the best option in a theoretical world, but here, where we are now,
28:33 like we need it and we're not, we're not gonna shift away from it. I think like a lot of people, I don't necessarily if they think we're going to, but like a lot of people would hope. Yeah,
28:47 why should people care about energy? I mean, we can't, I mean, I guess we could live without it, but not weak as we live out. We
28:57 can't live without it, and it touches everything. Like I also think kind of totally pivoting into some of the oil and stuff. I don't think people realize like how much of that is used for things
29:09 that they use in their everyday life, probably 95 of the things in this room. Yeah, so even outside of electricity, it's everywhere. And we need it if we are going to like continue this quality
29:20 of life that we have in 2023 Mm-hmm, I agree. Love it. What is your most embarrassing story work related? Oh, okay. So I graduated from college in 2020. So, you know, very sort of the
29:38 pandemic. So I moved home and I was living with my parents, which I feel like a lot of parents don't really get the work from home thing. Like they're like, Are you working? Like, Yes, like I
29:48 know I'm home, but I have a lot to do But so my parents have a pool and where I had like all my work stuff set up was in their basement. And behind me was a bathroom, a door to the bathroom. So
30:03 that's when people were out swimming, they would come in from the pool and then use the bathroom that was right behind my desk. So I was in a meeting, fortunately, it was only internal, not with
30:13 any customers. And at Arbo, we had, we're so small. So we kind of like really tried to keep it like personal and we did all our meetings with cameras on. So I'm in the middle of this meeting with,
30:26 I couldn't tell you what we were talking about, but I'm paying attention, minding my business. And the next thing I know, like I see in the corner of my eye, in my camera, my cousin who, she's
30:36 pretty close to my age, but like walk back behind me and a hot pink bikini. And then did she go straight to the bathroom? No. She just kind of like lingered there. And I'm like, I'm in shock,
30:49 'cause I don't have any trying to go Like, I could just turn the camera off. But I'm like, oh my God. And I don't know if anybody noticed, like nobody said anything to me. But that definitely
31:03 like sticks out as like, that's definitely, I'm glad that like, it was all internal because, you know, like it's kind of embarrassing, but like whatever. I could not have even imagined if that
31:12 was like on a customer call. Yeah. 'Cause like when you're on the call of customers, you're like looking to see what's going on in their backgrounds, you know, like you don't see them every day.
31:21 I like your tapestry, I like that piece of art. I'm sure a lot of people have some pretty embarrassing Zoom stories. Zoom stories. Yeah, that's great. It's a great share story. Yeah, at least
31:29 she was wearing a bathing suit. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, my hot pink bikini has like, oh, girl. Yeah. It's just like, like everybody else knocks before they come in, they know.
31:41 So I'm like, I have some work. She's just like, yeah. Yeah, and it's just stood there. I'm like, like, right now, right now. That's why you're here. Yeah, that's definitely, definitely
31:50 one of the big things Every once in a while, I'll, when I make charts, we,
31:55 when we talk about natural gas capacity, a lot of times we're looking at, in terms of deck of therms per day, which is abbreviated as DTH per day. So when I'm labeling them, I say DTH per day in
32:05 my head, and every once in a while we'd be like presenting to a customer at all. Be like, oh, and this many DTH per day. And I'm like, oh, no. And they're like, where's that? 'Cause that's
32:13 not an accepted acronym for it. I'm like, I know it's a deck of therm, but when I label it, like, that's how I say it in my head. So that's come out a couple of times I'm going to read
32:25 it Pretty it's cute. It sounds really
32:30 Cool well where can people find you if they want to Educate themselves. Yeah, so definitely LinkedIn is where we publish the most and it's all free. It's all there So I'm on LinkedIn just Riley
32:42 minor and then our bow is on LinkedIn as well and I think it is a good place to follow because we do produce so much content and it is all Research-based database and we make it free for anybody. I
32:54 mean, you know, the common people if they want to educate themselves Legislators potentially and also our customers too because we touch a lot of things in the inner in the industry So not just
33:04 natural gas not just renewables. We really do have a really broad look at everything Awesome. Yeah All right, should we plug anything we have coming up? Um energy tech night Oklahoma City I'm
33:18 excited. I'm excited. I, too, all of our friends in Oklahoma, August 10th Tower Theater be there or be square. Yes, we also have a power hour with Encino. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Coming up. Next
33:30 week. I actually don't know the topic of it, but. It's actually about a mission. Come on. It's about a mission. Oh, yeah. Jason Etier, who is the host or energy tech startups podcast, is
33:36 hosting it with the team from Encino, so it should be a good one That is on
33:47 July 27th. Hopefully this will be out by then. Yeah. All right, I think that's it. Great, well, thank you. Thanks. Bye. Bye.
