Exploring Downstream + Petrochemicals
0:00 Welcome back to energy 101 we I feel like I say this every time we haven't recorded in a while Yeah, I actually just made a LinkedIn post like begging for Entros to people to come on our podcast
0:15 because it's really hard just knowing who to talk to and really shape up Content in a way that's helpful for newbies like us though if y'all have any other suggestions after we get off that would be
0:29 amazing Today we have Tara. Oh my god. I forgot to ask how you pronounce your left name Schneberger, okay, I would have completely butchered that She is the director of execution at prolytics and
0:44 she worked in petrochemicals for most of her career previously and we have Will Welling who is currently a technical consultant at prolytics and Previously a field engineer at a refinery So this
0:59 episode is gonna be all about downstream, which I'm really, really excited about because being from Midland, I know like mostly only upstream exists in my world. So I'm really excited to learn
1:13 about what happens after it's out of the ground. It's a whole other world, my friends. So it's gonna be a great conversation and we're really gonna see how it gets in the hands of the everyday
1:25 consumer So we'll see and talk through kind of the full life cycle. I love it. Okay, do we wanna start with introductions? You wanna kind of tell about your background, what you've done
1:33 previously? Yep, so I'm a chemical engineer by background. So I got my bachelor's at UT at Austin and then I went and got my master's at the University of Oklahoma. So trying to bridge school
1:46 relations, you know, successfully, you know, but it was a fantastic experience. And so outside of school, I started working at a petrochemical company and really got to see the whole breadth of
2:01 petrochemicals, saw several facilities, worked in several roles, commissioned units, so it was really exciting and then joined politics about a year ago as the Director of Strategic Execution.
2:14 And so now our team is responsible for executing and supporting owners and operators for their digital transformation efforts. Awesome, all right, Will I'm Will Welling, I am currently a technical
2:30 consultant at Prolytics, but I started at the University of Houston where I got my mechanical engineering degree. And like Tara, I also went to grad school. I graduated from the University of
2:41 Texas at Arlington in 2018. And my first job was at a big refinery in Texas City. And there I was a field engineer where I would go out and do walk downs and system turnover worked with operations
2:56 to make sure kind of commissioning And but also I worked with databases and and ways of managing projects on the owner's side, so kind of got an influence of how the downstream sector was struggling
3:10 with their own digital transformations. Since then, I've done a few greenfield projects, worked for QIT for about a year, and then came up at a prolytics to help them with clients migrating data
3:22 and working with that sort of thing Awesome. So, y'all went, y'all both went from like really technical, chemical things, I don't know how to say that to digital transformation, that's really
3:37 cool. What we found and what I, I'll brag on on prolytics is that, you know, having an innate understanding of domain knowledge in order to roll out digital transformations is critical And so,
3:50 folks who have been in the trenches, out in the field, who've put their hands on equipment, hands down, have a. fundamental understanding, and more palatable understanding of what it takes to
4:03 rateably execute digital transformations in the industry. Yeah, and the problems they face, all of the things that come up. That's very true. I never, I don't know that I didn't understand what
4:15 prolytics did or anything but hearing it that way and y'all have domain expertise of engineers helping out. That's really interesting, I didn't realize that Especially when we first kind of seen the
4:27 challenges, so we've seen rolling out a connected worker with tablets as an example, which sounds great in theory, but when you have spotty Wi-Fi and you have to sync up tablets in a control room
4:41 at the end of the shift, that's where the rubber meets a road, that's where the challenge is and so that takes folks who have that innate domain knowledge to be able to help and partner with owners
4:52 on making that dream a reality. Right. Right. Okay, I have so many questions and I'm just going to like lay it all out and then we can organize thoughts. Sounds good. Okay, so first of all,
5:10 very interesting on
5:13 there's upstream where the oil is obviously brought from the ground. I'm really interested in not so much like mid-stream, obviously pipeline, but how does downstream receive? Like what does that
5:26 process look like from receiving the product to making it what it is? And then two, I really love like the day in the life of a field engineer. I don't know that I've ever talked to anyone who's
5:40 worked at a refinery and what it's like and what you do. So I think that's very, very interesting. So those are my thoughts on - Yeah, that's like question. My first question, what is downstream?
5:54 Yeah. Let's start there. So downstream is basically coming off of a pipeline and being received into a facility for manufacturing. So I'm familiar with petrochemicals. So I know we were talking
6:11 earlier, but kind of the shale revolution in 2010 was truly revolutionary. It was revolutionary for upstream, especially compounded with fracking and horizontal drilling. But that was a tide that
6:23 lifted all boats And so when I know I said the story earlier, but when I was an undergrad at UT, I remember several professors saying, we will never build another petrochemical facility in the US.
6:37 The costs don't make sense. The natural resources, it doesn't make sense. Everything will be built overseas. Fast forward to me graduating out of OU, and then starting in the
6:49 industry. And then within a year, I'm commissioning a brand new ethylene unit. And so essentially The stuff that refineries and the upstream guys don't want, petrochemical facilities love it. And
7:04 so it really reinforces that nothing is wasted, that even the gases and the natural gas liquids or NGOs that may not be desirable for upstream on specific applications, downstream manufacturing
7:20 facilities love it. So specifically it is ethane, we like ethane So ethane essentially comes off of a pipeline and then it is, there's several different units, but the ethane is transformed into a
7:38 chemical called ethylene. And that is a beautiful molecule in the sense that it's perfectly reactive. And when you add additional chemicals or co-monomers to ethylene, you get some really cool
7:56 chemicals. ranging from polyethylene, high density, medium density, low density, all the way to specialty chemicals like synthetic motor fluid, the odorants that go in pipeline for detecting
8:12 leaks. It smells like that sulfur goes into things like candles, sunscreens, lip gloss. So the applications from a petrochemical side are truly endless And what's neat is that that's something
8:27 that you can walk in a, you can walk in a grocery store and you see it all around you. So the challenge is, can we as a society go a single day without using something that comes from oil? And
8:40 right now, as it stands, the answer is no. It is absolutely integral to every stage of consumer goods. So it's been pretty impactful. So from a refinery perspective, what have you seen?
8:56 Well, I'm not a process guy, so I'm not going to pretend like I know as much as Tara does about any of that. But it's largely the same idea, a little bit different. So, I mean, oil, when it
9:06 comes in, has every hydrocarbon chain you can think of from the really lightens, all the way to just an incredible number of carbon chains. And so, what my, one engineer I worked with, that it's
9:20 all just heat and pressure I mean, every unit, I mean, whether it's, you know, the fluid catalytic cracking unit, or, you know, the, the alky unit or whatever, all you're doing is applying
9:31 heat and pressure, and you're, you're basically separating these compounds into certain cuts. So a refinery, what you get out of that is mostly fuels. We get, from the very lightens, you get
9:45 like kerosene and jet fuel and things like that You get gasoline, of course, and you get diesel, and then at the cochre and things like that, asphalt and coke itself, like lots of really sticky,
9:60 really heavy substances. So yeah, I mean, we would take in oil from tankers, from pipelines. And one thing that I thought was really interesting was that these facilities are almost like, almost
10:14 like an organism and that they're connected to other facilities. So like chocolate bayou, which I think is a polyethylene, whatever, they had pipelines in between them In fact, one of our
10:24 projects is we were commissioning them. I think they were supplying like excess hydrogen or something like that to go into one of our, you know, whatever unit like ultra cracker or something.
10:34 Right. So yeah, I mean, just like, even though she was in the petrochemical side and I was refining, it's like, it's all connected.
10:42 Off gases of a refinery would be taken into a petrochemical facility and then processed. So there was, there's a high level of integration to your point. Yeah, yeah, yeah So.
10:55 In to Tara's point, I mean, in today's day and age,
11:01 I mean, it's just vital for everything, right? I mean, we, I think America consumes like what, 20 million barrels? Somehow, over the last 50 years, we've always maintained about 17 to 20
11:11 million barrels a day of oil. That's crazy. That is crazy. Yeah, so it's quite a lot, you know, America's thirsty for oil
11:20 and it takes a lot of work and a lot of jobs to make it all happen Yeah, yeah, so can you take us through like your day as a field engineer working at a refinery? Like where you, so when you think
11:36 of Roughnecks, you know they're getting dirty, they're oil all over them. What is a like field engineer at a refinery look like? Are you doing that like dirty work? I mean, I'm completely naive
11:47 to what it's like in a refinery, so these are really stupid questions. really dangerous, like working in a refinery with gases and, you know, well, yes, I mean, the short answer, yes, start
11:58 with the safety. That's, that's always how you start off meetings anyway. Um, yeah, it is dangerous. It's incredibly dangerous work. I think with the, like, it's, it used to be more
12:08 dangerous. Now we have like integrated control systems, computers that kind of like help run these processes still incredibly dangerous. In fact, the refinery I worked at, the one in Texas city,
12:18 um, just recently had a fire and there was a fatality and a couple injuries within, like, literally the past two weeks. Wow. And then when I, when I left, I remember, I remember, I always,
12:29 you know, you check the news, there's always incidents going on. When I was at the Greenfield project construction, I would look and see. And there was an incident, you know, where one of the
12:37 oil tanks, like the manway busted or something and there's always the potential. There's just so many points of failure in these, in these places that could go around absolutely tons So it is, I
12:48 mean, they're good paying jobs, There's a reason they're good paying. Yeah, you're just kind of worried. Exactly, exactly. That's a great way of putting it. My job was not, I wasn't as
12:60 intimately involved with the process. I was more, I was brought on to kind of help with the small and medium and large cap projects, capital projects. And they were, so you know, the margins
13:12 that these facilities are all really tight. Like you're making like since on the dollar of every barrel you buy So these, and like they're always trying to extract just as much as they can. And so
13:24 they were trying to manage projects on their own more than having outside construction companies like KBR or, you know, wood or whatever help with these things, floor in this case. So I was
13:36 brought in to kind of help manage and help run the databases for like managing manpower, managing rental equipment, managing
13:46 various other costs associated with these projects.
13:50 on the other side where I was actually a field engineer to your question, finally getting to it. I would go out with the PIDs and other drawings and basically do a final check out with operations.
14:01 Operations and a few other folks, like the project engineer over that specific project. So we go, we check, walk through the PIDs, sometimes bring ISOs, things like that, bring quality
14:13 inspections guys with us, do a final look around and basically sign it off and be like, kick the tires, all right, turn this thing on And when you turn it on gas or whatever, it's flowing. I was
14:24 never around when they really turned it on, when operations were really commissioning it. So I didn't get, yeah, I didn't get my hands dirty quite like that. But is that what happens? Is that
14:32 what happens? Like you basically turn it on and like, hype is just filled with. That's right, so anytime before a project, there's always extensive safety briefings that happen. So there's
14:44 typically something called a management of change or MOC process or you do extensive hazard of evaluations. You're looking at all potential sources of risk and trying to mitigate as much as you can.
14:56 And I'm sure it's similar to very, very upstream where in order to work on a piece of equipment or take a piece of equipment out of service and put something new in, you've got to isolate it safely.
15:08 You can't have oil flowing through it. You can't have materials flowing through it. It needs to be isolated. So there's a practice called LTT, your lock tag try. It's also, I've heard Lotto lock
15:20 out tag out. And essentially that is from an operations and maintenance standpoint, your line of defense that you have locked out the section of equipment that you're going to be working on,
15:32 whether it's a project or just maintenance. And then you lock it out and you test it, you make sure that energy is dissipated, that there's nothing in there. And then if you go through your
15:43 management of change process, you're evaluating to make sure you've installed it correctly, you've had the right people work on it. inspect it to Will's point, and then operations will bless it,
15:53 say it's good, and then it will be ready to be put back in service. So at that point, you remove the locking mechanisms, you make sure everything's buttoned up, and then you slowly introduce
16:07 whatever material was in that piping back into it. It could be gas, it could be liquid, it could be product, but
16:15 you introduce that back safely into the process. I personally, I always felt pretty safe in a petrochemical facility. While we do work with volatile chemicals, there are so many safeguards in
16:29 place, making sure to protect folks that to me, driving to and from work in Houston driving, I felt to be more risky than actually working in the manufacturing facility. So, I mean, we're geared
16:44 up in the same way that upstream is. We've got our our steel tote boots, our fire retardant clothing. So we're suited up, it's hot in the summer, but recognizing it comes from a good place that
16:56 it's actually protecting us. So there's a lot to Will's point that goes in the day-to-day run and maintain. So from monitoring your manpower allocation to what work orders are out for the day,
17:09 meaning what's the maintenance on the plate, if there's an unplanned unit shutdown, then it's all hands-on deck, right? So operations, maintenance, engineers are coming together to put together
17:21 a plan and make sure that they safely bring that unit back up. So there's always something going on. I would not say it's like your classic mud and dirt. It's just, I didn't explain in chains.
17:36 Yeah, it was actually very clean facilities. So a lot of the facilities that I worked at go through a pretty rigorous safety certification
17:46 And part of that is cleanliness and your backlog on any findings or compliance items and making sure that those are good. So there's quite a bit of rigor that goes into even installing a little valve,
18:01 the amount of engineering paperwork and approvals, just to make sure that all considerations have been taken into play. So it's one of the most highly regulated and governed facets of our business
18:17 to make sure that we don't see incidents on the news and that we send people home the same way that they came in, that they come in safely. So there's always, there's always that in our minds.
18:28 Yeah. Okay. So whenever, do y'all receive like a full barrel of oil and then it goes into different segments? Or is it like midstream does something with it and then y'all get it and it already.
18:46 different form. I don't even know if this like again, yeah, there's this question makes it a question. So we we take a lot of natural gas liquids and we take some streams from refineries. And
19:01 basically, they're they're just big towers and they just separate materials. So they, there's a lot of chemistry behind it, recognizing boiling points of the various hydrocarbon components And so
19:16 the lighter components will volatize to the top of a fractionation tower, and that goes into a separate piece of pipe. And you go through and there's several take offs of a tower, the heavy stuff
19:29 tends to stay on the bottom because it's heavier. And so those different streams go to different end places. We will take some aspects of it, working in petrochemicals, refineries will take some
19:42 from upstream guys but everything has a. purpose. So we are not ever receiving like, here's your barrel of oil. Good luck. It is, it is in a pipeline form. And it is, it is a very tight spec,
19:59 most times of whether that's an ethane, a butane, a propane. It's, it's a, we have spikes, spikes on
20:08 everything. And so that's a tight spec. We received that certain feedstock. And then from there, that's when all the magic happens downstream with catalysts and the reactions to make the
20:21 polyethylene and specialty chemicals.
20:25 That's awesome. When you were first talking and describing what you did, I had a picture of like a mad scientist with tubes and everything, like just the reactions. I mean, you always have these
20:42 typical thoughts when you think of anything chemistry-wise. Is it like that, like, are you testing different things before you create the product or?
20:55 I don't know how to finish that question. Yeah, that's a question. Does it look like a full on like chemistry lab? And like, is there a lab? Absolutely. So most, if not all, manufacturing and
21:07 petrochemical companies have a research and development section. They work very closely with manufacturing facilities, a lot of companies have pilot plants, which are basically just miniature
21:20 versions of the larger operating units. And that's where you see more of your testing of new catalysts, new additives, new plastics and new chemicals before they scale it to the larger units. They
21:36 really need to see what's the feedback from consumers? What's the feedback from customers? And then getting that feedback, they'll go into the lab, tests on catalysis, on just reaction chemistry.
21:51 And then from there, they'll go to the pilot plant, see how it reacts, see how the equipment performs. Does anything foul? Does exchangers or filters foul up with this tweak of the formula? And
22:04 if everything looks good, then they start to scale that into the larger operating units. And then
22:12 depending on the customer need, they may like it, they may not. But there's all sorts of tests. I don't know if y'all remember. There was several years ago, there was - it was really for Doritos
22:25 bags. And they got really loud. Did y'all notice that? They were like crazy, crunchy. When you tried to open them, they were really loud. And it was because one of the larger bag manufacturers
22:40 was testing and say, Hey, this is, you know, post-consumer recycling. old percentage. Let's test it out. And they thought, you know, this, this has the, it's post-consumer. This is good.
22:53 We're cycling, which it, that's great. But the feedback from consumers was, it is so loud. You know, do I need to put earplugs in
23:04 and then it's like back to the drawing board, right? Yeah. So get the feedback, that continuous improvement, feedback loop. And so went back to a different formulation based off of the feedback
23:15 from the client. So there's a handful of examples where you're like, you see something rollout and then it either becomes kind of a statement and longstanding or you see it cycle back to the lab to
23:28 try that. That's wild. I don't feel like you think about like in the supply chain of Doritos or Cheetos, like the actual bag it comes in. So is that who the customer is for like petrochemicals?
23:41 They are supplying manufacturers. of different products. So your proctors and gambles, your Clorox, they will take petrochemicals and that's upstream 'cause it takes the package to hold it in. It
23:60 takes, so I would say the breath of consumer goods is all over the place. So nothing is left untouched from not only the material inside the packaging, but the packaging as well has some component
24:15 of petrochemicals included in it. Yep. That's crazy. It's probably even more than I thought. Like I already knew, like they're in everything, but to really think about every single thing you
24:29 touch from, like you were saying, the layers of inside, what were you saying of the Cheetos back? Yeah, that's wild. Get a good zoom in for the.
24:40 No, but I mean, this has an example. you know, the Cheetos, and this is like any snack bag, you know, tortilla chips, whatever. But, you know, there's multiple layers of petrochemicals in
24:54 these, and this is plastic. And so it'll start out in this kind of granular form, called these pellets. And these pellets are shipped off in rail cars or super sacks, depending on the client.
25:08 And then they will melt it down And then there's a lamination process for this. So there's multiple layers. So there's an outer layer, which typically has kind of like the logo. Then there's a
25:22 sealant layer in there. There's a barrier layer that keeps out moisture UV because UV breaks down. So there can be several layers to something that's so simple as just a bag And it's crazy to think
25:41 like there's, I mean. bags of Cheetos like millions of them and they're like the whole process is just mind-blowing to me over here. Right. What's interesting too from a sustainability perspective
25:53 is it's amazing the engineering that goes into the number of layers. It also makes recycling very challenging because there's so many different layers and so many different properties of the plastic.
26:07 It requires typically chemical recycling is better utilized for some of these more complex plastics as compared to traditional mechanical recycling. So they're, you know, even on the on the back
26:22 end from a sustainability perspective, there's all sorts of nuances that goes into how we sustainably manage these materials. So it's pretty fascinating. I can go through each of these if you want.
26:36 Yeah, let's do it. I don't know if it's an actual segue, but yes, yes, let's do it. So the next one on the docket, I've got these sugar packets here. So you may think, oh, I just rip it open.
26:47 I put it in my coffee and I never think about it again, but there's actually a coating on the inside. It's typically wax, which can be petrochemical based. And that's what keeps the sugar packet,
27:02 it actually keeps the granular sugar. If anybody's picked up a sugar packet that's been wet, it starts to clump, nobody wants that, right? So this is an example of something so small that has big
27:15 impacts on the in-consumer Starbucks. Not my sponsor, but if you want a sponsor, I will gladly sponsor, but that's a classic example of there is a plastic lining in addition to the lid, but
27:34 there's a plastic lining in the inside. So have y'all remember in the early days paper straws where you're like enjoying a mojito and then the straw disintegrates in your mouth. They've come a long
27:48 way. Yeah, paper. You're getting your fiber in addition to your mojito. You know, they've come a long way since then with, you know, bamboo. I've seen all sorts of like much better materials
27:60 that are sustainable that's trying to mimic the properties of like a classic paper or a classic plastic straw. But for a Starbucks, there's a plastic lining in here so it doesn't have that same
28:14 effect of disintegrating and then having hot coffee or hot beverage everywhere. So that's typically made. You can either coat it or you can laminate it to the cardboard similar to what they do for
28:30 some of those chip bags. Now, I also have a candle here. I'm a big candle fan. My husband will. Admits that there's always a candle or two, but candles is actually a it actually comes from
28:46 petrochemicals now There's the soy candles that there's there's different derivative sources But there a lot of it is is petrochemicals. So you'll take ethylene you'll run it over a catalyst and
28:59 it'll make a whole variety of Chemicals and one of them is can be a heavy wax and so the wax will Loaded in rail cars big rail cars full of wax and they're actually heated. Are they like pellets? No,
29:16 it is melted Whack, it's like a big old rail car candle. Wow. I just got to throw a wick in it But it's it's a heated rail car. So it actually stays in the liquid form. Okay, and then when it
29:28 gets to the consumer or the client they'll go and Add perfumes and scents too with the odd any colors. You want to get soup artisanal, the add like, you know, the dried flowers and like all the
29:42 fancy stuff into it that I like. So that's that's an example of that you would never even think of even from like candle, you know, that that that comes from the gas from, you know, from fracking
29:57 from shale. So it's pretty crazy. That is wild. It really is. Yeah. Well, my last one, especially, hold on, especially since you say it comes from fracking, like for everyone who hates
30:10 fracking, just look at your candle here using it. There you go. Look at your bath and body works.
30:17 So the last one I've got here, I've got a Tesla. And so this, this isn't meant to, you know, tease, poke or prod. It's the reality that even with electric vehicles, there's a significant
30:28 component that comes from oil, whether that's the synthetic materials of the seeds or in some of the the plastic components interior whether it's the. high-density polyethylene on some of the body
30:40 of the vehicle, like the bumper, the gas tank is a big one, especially for, you know, internal combustion engines. You get better gas mileage when you have plastic fuel tanks, and those are
30:53 done by rotational molding or roto molding, and it's basically melting some of these plastic pellets, high-density, melting it into kind of a molten form, and then putting it into a mold and
31:10 letting it harden, and it reduces corrosion, it reduces any drag, and it's more economical from a miles per gallon than what you would see from a steel tank. So that's just a great example there.
31:26 Tires is another example. That is big on the refinery side with some of the tar and the asphalt, but there's also petrochemicals that go into it as well
31:37 the adhesion and some of the long lasting tire characteristics to kind of the tread and things like that. And then there is also, this was news to me until just a couple years ago, but there's also,
31:52 there's a synthetic motor fluid that is in the body of the car. And it's actually in the gearbox differential that contains a synthetic oil to ensure that you've got a good transmission. So there's
32:08 actually oil that runs in it. You don't have to get an oil change because it's an electric vehicle. But there's, it's a lubrication component to make sure that everything is greased and running
32:17 well. So there's something that you would never even expect.
32:23 And then I've got, let's see, got a piece of paper, which you would think, oh, you just stamp on these, you know, the red and the blue lines, right, but there's actually chemicals. needed to
32:37 help with the color of the paper, to help with the adhesion of the inks and the dyes, the bleaching process. So even something fundamental as, I know school's out for the summer, but it'll be
32:48 back in session before you know, and buying something as simple as that has ramifications. I didn't know that. Yeah, and then a milk jug. This is a classic example of polyethylene, and this is
33:02 manufactured through blow molding So blow molding is basically, it's that molten plastic, and you blow it into a mold, and you do a little last burst of air, kind of fit the mold, and then you
33:20 run cold water or cold air over it, and it solidifies immediately. So think about not only from a consumer perspective, just the weight of it, but even transporting these to your HGBs, your
33:35 Walmart, brokers, your grocery stores, what the impacts that has for trucks and their miles per gallon and their fuel efficiency, right? What's really neat about all these different types of
33:48 plastic is that as the chemical process completes, you can add different additives to it and it gives it different property. So, you know, this is kind of opaque. It's not totally transparent,
34:01 right? So there's an additive added at the end part of the process to give it the characteristics. The same thing can be said for shiny plastic like coat hangers, for example. Those are given an
34:13 additive to give it that shiny, high gloss look. And so the same thing can be applied for there will be additives for UV blockers to help prevent degradation from the sunlight for some outdoor
34:28 equipment in sports like kayaks or basketball.
34:35 So there's all sorts of applications and everything is engineered to a science of engineering. Everything has a purpose, whether it's the lining in your Starbucks, whether it's the color of a milk
34:48 jug. Everything is done and thought of and optimized. And I can say that for refinery and for petrochemicals, everything is done for a reason in order to make sure that we're from a safety and
35:03 compliance perspective. And from a consumer goods perspective, everything is just meticulously thought of to make sure that kind of hitting on all cylinders, so. Yeah, I wanna quickly go back to,
35:19 when you were talking about the shale revolution and it really making an impact for downstream as well. And you said you were on
35:33 Refinery facility, something. I was on a petrochemical facility, and I was still a newer engineer, just a couple years out of school, and there was an opportunity, they were commissioning a
35:47 brand new ethylene unit. On ethylene unit, it's a glorified oven. There's a lot of engineering that goes into it, but for all intents and purposes, you're taking that ethane That's a gas or a
36:02 byproduct that upstream guys don't want, the refiners don't want. They take it and they heat it up to very hot temperatures. And they break it down to its most core monomer. And then they
36:18 basically go through with a series of compressors and then those large refractionation towers. And they make ethylene. And ethylene is really - that's the
36:28 molecule that makes it happen So ethylene can be reacted with. the catalysts that go and make all of this. But talk about an opportunity to be on a project where you're commissioning and they're
36:42 massive. I mean, you can see them from the road, you know, they're massive. And, you know, I knew that unit, like the back of my hand, because I went through all those stairs and you've got
36:55 your punch list, you know, you're an engineer and you've got your clipboard and you've got your engineering documents and I'm tracing lines to make sure that it matches the isometric drawings and
37:06 making sure that maintenance is working, the project crews are working on what was prioritized for the day. And so going into the structure to inspect it, to make sure everything was installed
37:21 correctly, going into vessels in like a two, three year engineer and I've got my horn hat on and, you know, and that's how you, you know,
37:33 But it's so exciting, you know, because that's how you cut your teeth and you have such an appreciation and a respect for all the engineering both upstream to get it to that point. All the design
37:45 engineering from EPCs and those guys who were designing the equipment to actually getting it installed And then being one of the few folks who,
37:58 you know, working with operations inside the control room, and everything's ready to go, everything checked out, green lights ready, and being able to say, let's start introducing feed. You
38:12 know, and seeing everything kind of light up like you're introducing feed for the first time in a brand new unit You know, it's a cool milestone and something that we never thought would be possible
38:24 in the US if it wasn't for shale. So, you know, there's plenty of great partnerships. know that happened in the Middle East and in Asia, but there is something about having new manufacturing
38:36 facilities being built from the ground up in the US, whether it's in the Golden Triangle, whether it's off the Gulf Coast, and even the NGL units that have popped up around Montville View, it's
38:48 been fantastic to see just all the downstream components that come from shale that come from the horizontal drilling. So it's been really cool Yeah, that was going to be my question is what caused
39:01 it to the, how did the shale revolution lead to like us having a facility in the US and it was because of the production? That's correct. So because we were able to access more oil in creative ways,
39:15 right, with horizontal drilling, oil is, if it's a great well, it'll be a majority oil, but nine out of 10 times is always going to be some gas with it. It's not 100 oil. So the question was,
39:29 well, what do we do with the gas that we're extracting with the oil? And one option is just you flare it, which to me is wasteful. If there's an opportunity to utilize it, let's do it. And so
39:43 that's when we really started seeing a lot of ethylene units and then polyethylene units and natural gas liquids or NGL fractionators be built is to really process those lighter ends and make it
39:57 usable for downstream facilities to be able to go into all of this. Do you know why a company would choose to flare over sending it downstream? Like is there any type of gas that has to be flared?
40:13 I don't know. Short answer, I don't know. I think in general, the flare is a safety system. So the flare, it should be used for safety. And so if there's a unit upset Or if there's any
40:27 continuous. burning of typically a flare will go with nitrogen and methane in the flare, but it's used as safety. So in general, if they're flaring, it's typically intermittent because there's
40:41 not the facility there to process the gases. They don't have that available. Or it's just it was the need at the time. But yeah, in general, they're you try to minimize flaring as much as you can.
40:54 Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any questions? I think that's it for me. Or we go and have anything else you want to kind of talk about or anything that you didn't really get to explain.
41:11 I think I'm good on my end. I think a lot, you know, I do get a lot of feedback on where's all this stuff going? Yeah, like we're we were building new facilities and we're creating more of these
41:23 consumer goods. Where are they going? And what we're seeing is is there's a rise of middle class globally, whether that's in Asia, it's predominantly in Asia, but there's also localized of folks
41:37 coming into the middle class and seeing what consumer goods are available and wanting to have that opportunity. So I heard a great analogy is somebody coming into the middle class who would use these
41:52 materials is going from using a bar of soap to a bottle of shampoo Right, and that's where you really see that incremental demand on some of these consumer goods, whether it's from petrochemicals or
42:06 from renewables, I think consumer goods and these end products are really paramount and they're kind of they're a staple to society. Yeah, yeah, and you've said this multiple times,
42:20 it's just cheaper to use petrochemicals than it is to use other type of. things, it's cost-efficient. That's
42:30 a big thing for us is educating people on, Hey, we want the world to be able to access cheap and reliable energy, and you can't do that right now without oil and gas. I actually have some really
42:44 good stats for you based off of that condo.
42:49 An example of that is for food wrappings, that 50 of food is wasted annually, and a third of that is because of appearance. You're like, Well, what does that have to do with petrochemicals? What
43:03 does that have to do with oil? The reality is that there's a preservation factor with plastics that, as an example of cucumber, it's typically last, freshness, five days unwrapped, but 14 days
43:19 in plastic. Red meat, vacuum packed, that's sealed packaging.
43:25 preventing oxidation that has a shelf life of six days compared to three days. So basically doubles it. I've never thought about that. Like I've never even realized. And bread is the most infamous
43:37 on, you know, preservation of freshness. You can triple or quadruple the shelf life of bread by using plastic packaging. And so what that means is it's less waste and it's able to, for a supply
43:52 chain and transportation, you can transport food to broader locations, geographical locations. So it's not just the Starbucks cup or the candle, it's come down to food preservation and not wasting
44:07 as much, especially like going to landfills, 50 of food waste, it goes into landfills. So because a third of it is because of appearance, which is crazy to me. Yeah. That is crazy. That's wild.
44:17 I really have never thought about that. That's, yeah, very interesting.
44:23 Understand how people can demonize it whenever you like really sit and think right. Yeah. Absolutely. There's definitely a place in a time I'm all for innovation. So if there's innovative ways to
44:36 produce plastic sustain. Yeah, cuz I'm like, what is this in? What's the alternative right? So, you know, I I'm excited to see all the renewables come up from you know from a plastic
44:49 perspective, but the price point is challenging. That's it right now. It's not it's not cost efficient for anyone except, you know, probably Top right yeah upper class upper class. Yeah, so as
45:07 soon as as we see it as we see some scalability and Advances within technology. I'm all for more innovative ways to continue to see development and consumer goods But in the interim we're going to
45:21 continue to to do what's um, what's helps her clients at the end of the day with their consumer goods and making sure that folks are satisfied. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the majority of the oil and
45:33 gas industry would agree with you that renewables isn't a bad thing. We're all really excited and I think that, um, there's a time and place for it and you can't do it right now without oil and gas
45:49 is also an incredible amount of plastic that goes into those, um, like wind turbines and offshore wind turbines and solar panels. Solar panels. Yep. Yep. I'm all for blended It. should not be
46:01 one at the sake of another. It should be blended based off of a case by case scenario and let the consumers vote, right? Let's see what makes sense and what place we have, um, for those specifics,
46:14 but you've got a cool little sign out there that says evolve or die Yeah, that's a perfect example of continuing to innovate and find the best solution. Yeah, yep, that's really what digital wall
46:27 caters is all about, and helping foster the community to do that. Right. Yeah, and we like to say energy addition instead of energy transition, because it's an addition, where consumers are just
46:41 consuming more and more energy, as technology grows, they use growth, so. Exactly. Yeah, do you have, do you wanna do your questions? Yeah, we're gonna do rapid fire, really quickly. Oh,
46:54 wow. All right, number one. I wonder.
46:60 What's the number one misconception about the energy industry?
47:06 Hmm, that's a good one.
47:10 I've talked too much, Will. It's on you. You
47:14 get this rapid firing. This conception. Well, kind of segueing off what we were just talking about. I think a lot of people don't appreciate just the number of jobs and scale of the industry. I
47:24 don't think people who don't live in the Gulf Coast area realize just how valuable it is to the people down here, whether it's upstream or downstream I don't think people realize that welders can go
47:35 out and make six figures, that pipe fitters and those guys working turnarounds can make a year's salary in one quarter. I don't think people appreciate how hard they work
47:49 and just the kind of toll that they take on their bodies and that kind of thing. I think people also don't appreciate the fact that plastic and petrochemicals is in everything, literally everything
48:02 Are clothes? Yes. Everything. Makeup. Makeup. I love that you said that and being from Midland, I always talk about the opportunity there to make six figures right out of high school. Like
48:17 that's insane and it's amazing. It's one of the reasons that I love Midland so much is because if you work hard, you'll get rewarded. And I think that's really cool. And I don't think people
48:29 realize how hard it is. And not only how hard it is on the person working, but their family, they pay that price. They don't get to see them. They're always called out on birthdays, holidays.
48:41 It doesn't matter. And it's actually what led, I think, my dad was an engineer. He worked for Halliburton for 40 years. His work ethic, I mean insane. And then I watched my husband. He was
48:55 actually a rough neck, worked his way up on the rig. And it in turn made me be very independent at home Independent at home, I have three kids. I had three kids when very little when he was out
49:10 there, and I had to do everything on my own. And it's not something that I was like, Hey, you're home from work. Help me do this. Like, no, he's tired, and it does take a toll on their body.
49:21 So I'm glad you said that. I don't think anyone's ever said that, and that's one of my favorite tangents to go on.
49:30 Number two is why we should care. So like me, someone that came from outside of the industry didn't know anything about it And to educate people that don't know anything about it. Are we switching
49:41 back and forth, or is this? Are you both answer? We don't both answer. So why is it so important? Yeah, like why it's important to educate people on why they should care, essentially. I think
49:52 knowledge is power. I think it's very easy to see volatile things in the news, and I think it's another thing to actually fundamentally understand what's the intent. The intent is good
50:05 We care about the environment, right? We care about each other. It's a very close community. I would say I keep in touch with folks that I've worked with over the years, and it's it's fantastic
50:18 that, you know, to build those connections networks. You really are a team, especially, you know, on shift work, and a lot of a lot of the folks that I worked with I've been on the same shift
50:32 for decades, you know, longer than they've been married, longer than they've had families, they've known the folks that they've worked with on that shift and that builds a camaraderie, and that
50:41 builds strong rapport. So there's a lot of strong teamwork and building there. Yeah.
50:50 Anything else? Um. So the question was, why is it important to educate people on the importance? Um, yeah, I just think that, I mean, in modern life, people just take everything for granted.
51:04 Um.
51:08 it's just people aren't aware of how much it takes. Like I'm still shocked when I look and see, even when even gas is 4 a gallon, I'm like just the amount of work and like the distance that
51:22 hydrocarbon traveled out of the rock, like all the way across Texas or out of the Gulf of Mexico or wherever. And none of the processes it went through and like all the design and all that, like
51:31 everything it went through and it's still only 3 a gallon, like that's a miracle. Yeah. That is a miracle That is insane, how many jobs it employs, yeah. So, again, it's just appreciation. I
51:41 think people just need to realize like, yes, there are consequences to burning on, I guess, but like
51:48 what it gives you and what it takes to get there. Right. So. Yeah, I like that answer. This is our favorite one and you guys both have to answer. What's your most embarrassing story in your
51:58 career? Oh, that was easy.
52:03 go first
52:06 then. Okay well I won't tell
52:14 He's like, No, he's American. He's like, No, he's American. He's American, he's like, No, he's American, sorry. Yeah, I mean, I can't, I can't dark myself too bad. I've definitely,
52:16 I've shown up to the control room on one, so, you know, you
52:21 go out, you look at control room, top operations, which you're about to do, and then they sign off on it and you go do your thing. I've shown up to the control room without like, my stilted
52:27 boots. I was wearing my tennis shoes without like, my, without my hard hat, without my glasses. I'm just like, and you know, these are different, different occasions, but like, I'm, I'm,
52:38 can be forgetful. So they're just like, what are you doing? Where's your hard hat? Right. Um, safety basics. So you got, you got kicked out? Yeah, it's like, go, you know, go back and get
52:49 your, your stilted boots, right? So that's funny. Mine is, when I was commissioning a new unit, I had a great relationship with, with the operators and maintenance folks who were helping
53:02 support that. And,
53:04 you know, you're wearing your hard hat And sometimes we kind of. play pranks on each other and stick like a post-it note on the back or whatever. Well, I was walking around like all day. One of
53:16 the operators put a pink ribbon, like a streamer on the back of my hard hat. You had no idea. And I had no idea. And so I'm walking around all day and folks are kind of turning and looking at me
53:30 and I, you know, the wind was going and my pink streamers kind of flowing, you know, and they're kind of turning and looking and I'm like, man, you know, am I, am I out of compliance or
53:40 something, you know? And so at the end of the day, I take off my hard hat and I see this pink streamer. And, um, and so the joke was, you know, hey, you got tagged, you got your, you know,
53:51 the pink streamer. And what's funny is I still have my hard hat. Um, I still have that hard hat and I kept that pink streamer on there. And so every time, every time somebody asks like, what's
54:00 up with the pink streamer? And I'm like, It's a long story, but just go with it's now a windsock. And that tells me the direction of the wind. So it's for safety purposes now, but it's, and
54:13 that just goes to show that it's a community of folks. Yeah. You know, it's a family, folks look out for each other. They know they're kids, they're families, kids, you know. And so it really
54:23 is a tight network of folks building those memories together. I love that. I love that too. That's awesome. I love that you still have it. Yeah Okay, this episode was really, really fun. It
54:37 made me, honestly, want to go to school for chemical engineering. At the very least, I want to go on a field trip. Yeah, so I, really quick, I lived in Deer Park and like where all the plants
54:50 are and stuff, and we would go on field trips to the plants. Oh. Like, we went to Lubrizol on a field trip there. Yeah. It was an elementary school. Yeah, it was from what I can remember. It
55:00 was sort of cool That's just crazy you live over there and like your field trips are you're going to the plants, right? Yeah, it's cool. And actually see it in person. Yeah, that is really cool.
55:10 We never did that on like a drilling rig in. You know, could you imagine a bunch of like six-year-olds on a drilling rig? Someone would be getting fired. We did get to go to the museum and do like
55:22 a lock-in. No, that's cool. Over night, yeah. Anyway,
55:27 so where can people find y'all if they want to learn more? Y'all talked a lot about prolytics in the beginning. Where can people find me? So we're on social media, we're on LinkedIn, and we also
55:40 go to prolyticscom, and folks can reach out to us there, but we're happy to help support digital transformation and help owners and operators with their roadmaps. Awesome.
55:51 Anything else? I think that's it. That's it, all right, thanks everyone. We'll catch you next time.
